the second republican debate, it may be now or never for some candidates. at least they are acting that way. are we starting to hear the sound of desperation on the stump? >> he says kanye west is great. why is kanye west great? because kanye west likes trump. >> chris christie barely qualified for in week's debate. can he make a comeback? the governor joins me live. >> reporter: plus, after the summer of trump -- >> we are led by very, very stupid people. >> is the gop about to split in two. with congressional republicans the tea party's fall guys. >> majority leader mitch mcconnell and speaker john boehner. >> also. it took months for hillary clinton to get to this about her

e-mail. >> that was a mistake, i'm sorry about. i take responsibility. >> but she continues to lose ground to bernie sanders. could sanders actually win the nomination? snoe senator sanders joins me live. finally the refugee crisis in europe. how much is america's policy in europe to blame for the scenes we are witnessing today. joining me this morning for insight and analysis -- david brooks of "the new york times." maria hinojosa of npr. former bush white house political director sara fagan, and "the national journal's" ron fornier. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." good sunday mourning. today is the first full day of the nfl season. you can be sure that somebody somewhere is nervously saying their team already faces a must-win situation. yes, even on week one. with wednesday's republican debate looming, a number of

candidates perhaps like scott walker suddenly are facing their own must-win situation. score big on wednesday or do you end up seeing your candidacy go belly-up as rick perry did on friday when he realized he wasn't going to qualify for a second debate. you could also sense the desperation this week with trailing candidates upping their rhetoric, starting with mike huckabee who spoke regarding the woman in kentucky who went to jail. >> i'm willing to go to jail in her place because i'm tired of watching people be just harassed because they believe in something of their faith. >> donald trump is not a serious candidate. he is a narcissist. he is an egomaniac. >> and the loud voices that don't have a plan. let's talk about donald trump. as stephen colbert said. let's talk about the big orange elephant in the room. >> >> john roberts, the president

bush's obamacare would have been struck down three years ago and marriage laws would still be on the books. >> fact check. justice souter's seat was filled by a democratic president. chris christie was once considered a front-runner, what the gop was looking for, a blue state republican leader, and then he had a fallout with bridgegate, financial troubles in new jersey, poll numbers low enough he almost didn't make it into the first two debates. governor christie, welcome to "meet the press." let me start with you said something like, this you said we have no choice but to work together. and it seems to be a message that isn't resonating right now with republican primary voters who aren't interested in compromise and coming together. they're interested in the case of congress maybe burning the place down. >> i think that's why they are not working together.

they want to burn congress down because it doesn't do anything. let's face it. i was out on the trails in 2014 helping governor's candidates and senate candidates to get elected. what have these guys done that they promised to do? these new senators. we don't have tax reform on the president's desk. we don't have a repeal and replace of obamacare on the desk. this is why people can't stand congress. >> did they overpromise? obviously they've underdelivered. was it an overpromise? >> i think no. i think they underdelivered. i have had a democratic congress in new jersey. i've had 400 vetoes. b but at the same time we passed the property tax cap, reformed teacher tenure. . reformed the pension system. you can stand up and still find a way to work together and pro

compromise. but the people in washington care more about shows like this. inside the beltway and spouting off things. >> >> let's talk about your record in new jersey. you have got run on it. >> happy to run on it. >> let's look at it. i want to put up. right now new jersey is ranked 50th for business tax climate. 46% for doing business. 26% for growth in 2014. the employment rate is below the u.s. average. how is this a record that americans should say we want you to do that for america? >> you should see what it was when i got there. the fact is they had 115 tax increases in the seven years before i became governor. we vetoed every tax increase. there was no net private sector job creation, chuck, in the eight years before i became governor. zero. we've created 198,000 new jobs in the last 5 1/2 years. the fact is that weep spend $2.5 billion less than we used to. here's the biggest thing. what they wanted was someone to say no to higher taxes, no to

more spending and parental involvement, parental choice. we've done all those things in new jersey. anybody with pick out any statistics they want but in new jersey it's much better today than it was six years ago. >> this issue on spending and taxes has led i think to this. we do this on facebook. here is the question he had for you. he said why does he deserve to be president when he has set a record with nine down grades for the state of new jersey while governor. he's referring to the nine credit downgrades. some of it is because you have cut taxes too much and therefore you have left the state without enough money. >> that's simply not true. >> to be fiscally responsible. >> you know what it is, chuck? it is the public sector unions who refuse to compromise on pensions. if you look at the credit down grades they are all about long term pension problems. we have saved $120 billion in the pension system over the next 30 years on what we've done already. but the unions continue to want more and more and more. in a democratic state like new

jersey it's tough to get them to push even further. what the last credit report said was, if the pension problem were fixed, new jersey would be in good fiscal condition. this is not about not having enough revenue. the government was too big. we've made it smaller. if the pension system continues to get better we will be fine. >> except -- all right. but if you haven't been able to fully solve the crisis and make democrats what you want them to do in new jersey, how are you going to do it in washington? >> wait a second. we have taken a pension system that was about to go under and now it's paying its bills and doing better in the six years that i have been governor than it was in the two decades before. the fact is you are doing and making progress. but here is the bottom line. we have got a senate democratic president to be able to sit down and sponsor a pension reform bill that cut c.o.l.a.s, that

raised retirement age. similar things weed we have got to do in washington, d.c. washington, d.c. i have absolutely no doubt that i can come down to congress, not cave like others have done and get the job done. >> last 18 months you have been dogged at home by the whole bridgegate mess. this week, the butterfly of bridgegate led to the ceo of united airlines resigning. it has to do with perhaps some quid pro quo with perhaps someone once described as your mentor, david samson who ran the port authority. let me ask you this question. you have got four people close to you who have indicted, pled guilty or are under investigation. what should we take about this? as americans when we think about you, either that you had bad judgment in the people you picked or you created a climate where people thought they could operate this way? >> neither. here's what happens, for 13 years i have been in public life as u.s. attorney and as governor. i've set an incredibly high standard for all of our people have have to reach every day and

i hold them to that standard. here's what a leader does. you can't when you have 60,000 people -- >> this is not 60,000 -- this is as big of an appointment in you make in new jersey. is it not? >> first of all, you have no idea -- you have no idea as you sit here today that he did anything wrong. nor does anybody else. let's stop just reading the newspapers. >> fair enough. >> let's stop reading the newspapers and just blathering back what that is. here's the bottom line, when you have all these folks working for you, the fact is you hold them to high standards. in they don't meet those high standards, what a decisive leader does is you take action and you terminate them. that's the standard i hold myself to and everyone else to. what really matters as hillary clinton is finding out is how you react to a crisis. not that there never will be any crises, but how you react. when we had a crisis the next day i took questions for an hour and 15 minutes, no holds barred. let's see if mrs. clinton does

one-fifth of that on her crises. what people want from their leaders is honesty and candor, not perfection. i can't ensure perfection from anybody, but i will hold people to those high standards todays and when i'm president of the united states. >> if you are president of the united states, what will you do as far as transparency is concerned, political appointments, that will make folks know that what happened at the port authority won't have in your presidency? >> same thing i've been doing every day as governor and u.s. attorney. if mistakes are made, hold people responsible who make those mistakes and discuss it with the public openly and transparently which is exactly what i did. everything i said 18 months ago in an hour and 50 minute-long president conference, after three investigations, press conference, not one thing has been contradicted. in the end it is how a leader reacts.

i wish barack obama might have reacted that way to the irs scandal. maybe barack obama would have reacted a lot differently to some of the other things that happen, been transparent and maybe he should stand up today and say to hillary clinton, madam secretary, this is a stain on my administration. stand up and fully cooperate and answer every question and ask all the people around you to cooperate as well. >> is the port authority a stain on your administration? >> no. it is not. nothing has been proven yet. so let's see what happens, chuck. >> all right. let me ask you one final question here. when it comes to what's going on, earlier this week you had sort of ative, i think, with the readers in new york city about whether it is safe in new york city. bill bratton said governor christie shouldn't throw stones from glass houses with broken windows. implying your city is unsafe. >> i have a lot of respect for bill bratton. when he worked for rudy giuliani, crime went significantly down in new york city. now bill bratton works for bill

deblde blasio and deaths and shootings are up. it is make the city unsafe. when i watched him talk about how it is safe for new york city, it is ironic the only person who thinks it is safe for new york city are guys walking around with armed guards all the time. the only guys, plural, who think it are people who walk around with armed guards. i saw the mayor say the other day, well, it is only ten more murders. well let me tell you this, chuck. pass a former prosecutor and as a governor, tell that to the ten families of people who lost their lives. more this year in new york city so far. every life matters. the fact is that this mayor shows a disregard for that. why is it that -- wait a second. why is it that in cities like in ours where we fired the entire police force along with an african-american democrat mayor. we fired the entire police force, got rid of their bloated union contract, have 150 more

cops on the street than three years ago. in camden, new jersey the murder rate is down 61% in the last three years. this president has allowed lawlessness and bill de blasio is just another symptom of that lawlessness. >> how important is this debate for you? >> it is important for everybody. any time you get a chance to be in front of 20 million people, it's great. i'll have a great time. i'll make you laugh. >> when we come back, the fate of the republican party. are the outsiders about to take the gop away from the establishme establishment. is john boehner in big trouble? speaking of taking away, could this man take the democratic nomination away from hillary clinton? bernie sanders will join me later. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep it all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route.

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welcome back. when you look at the republican race for the white house one thing becomes clear. we are seeing a clean split between the establishment and the outsiders. the disgust with the republican establishment that has been a staple of conservative talk radio has gone mainstream. the result, an election in which in one poll, just two outsiders -- donald trump and ben carson together -- have higher poll numbers than all of the so-called establishment candidates combined. about eight of them. all this has talk of a gop split. in the long term it could hold the fate of the entire gop in its hands. the summer of trump, is about to

become to a very combative fall. a year where outsiders are ascended. >> i'm not going to be a traditional politician. >> the same disgust with washington that's launching presidential candidates who have never held political office. >> we are led by very, very stupid people. >> reporter: is setting up a fight inside the capitol for the soul and direction of the republican party. >> there are two men in washington, d.c. who can defeat this deal. their names are majority leader mitch mcconnell and speaker john boehner. >> reporter: this week, a preview as tea party conservatives gathered in washington to protest the iran nuclear deal after it became clear nothing could stop it. >> the republicans control that building behind us right now. you see that scaffolding up there? they should take some of that and use it on their damn spine. >> reporter: the next fight will decide whether the federal government stays open past september.

anger that republican leaders are already conceding defeat on some of their key priorities, including iran and defunding planned parenthood. conservatives would like to see both mcconnell and boehner out. it's boehner, speaker of the house, whose job is in jeopardy. >> he is worse than obama. obama we know is not on our side. he is making these deals with iran. but boehner is working against his own party, against his own people. >> reporter: earlier this summer congressman mark meadows filed a formal resolution to unseat boehner as speaker. >> the american people have grown weary of campaign promises that have not been fulfilled. >> yesterday afternoon there was a large standing ovation amongst our members for the fact that i have this job and what i have to put up with to keep it. >> for now, the meadows resolution remains just a threat. but if things go south for conservatives in october, that threat could become a reality.

>> we are very disappointed. that i can tell you. >> joining me congressman tom cole, an ally of john boehner. member of the house gop leadership. and former senator jim demint, now the head of heritage foundation who once said this. >> i have 30 republicans in the senate who believe in the principles of freedom than 60 who don't believe in anything. >> welcome to "meet the press." senator demint, let me start with you. explain the beef that the conservatives have with mcconnell and boehner? >> it's not just conservatives. it's all over the country. what i hear, the party is really united outside of the washington. they don't follow their own party platform. the things that were mainstay ten years ago of balancing the budget and limited government and getting red of cronyism is now called radical or far right by republican leadership in

washington. now, at heritage we are not republican or democrat. but we do want leadership in washington to carry those basic common sense conservative ideas forward. i know we along with millions and millions of americans are just frustrated that this republican party has not stood up to president obama for his whole term in office. >> i hear this time and time again, they don't understand why john boehner doesn't fight harder. what do you say? >> well that's just nonsense. when he became speaker, the budget deficit was $4.4 trillion a year. this year it will be under 30. he lowered the debt in the medicare fund. he has passed more legislation than any other speaker. he didn't have a republican senate until the last two months. he still doesn't have a republican president. what he's done operating, frankly, as the one place where we had republican control for multiple years has been really exceptional.

>> senator, respond to that. there is only so much john boehner and mitch mccobble can do without a republican president. >> any cut in spending was a result of a conservative fight. we call it cut, cap, and balance. neither the leader in the house or the senate was with us on that. but the conservatives from around the country basically forced them into considering some cuts which have taken effect and made some difference. but every issue becomes a fight. every year, we are fighting about just some reasonable reductions in the growth of spending and standing up to obama, whether it's on controlling the internet, or changing the national franchise. >> what will a change in speaker do? >> we are not advocating. >> understand that. but what will that do, either in style or in personality? what do you think that will do? >> i think what conservatives need and i assume a lot of republicans around the country want are leaders in washington who are advocating for those principles that we know made

this country great and will make life better for every american. we don't hear that out of them. we don't hear a plan. we are two weeks from the end of the year. have you heard anything from any of the leadership in washington about what we are doing to do at the end of the year? how can you build support for something if you won't lay out a plan and let people know this is what we stand for and this is what we are going to fight for. >> tom cole explain why you probably can't get a budget passed that's going to quote defund planned parenthood. >> with all due respect to my friend, i mean taking credit for what you didn't do is the wrong thing to do. john boehner negotiated the budget control act. that's what lowered the deficit. that's just a fact. in terms of -- >> mitch mcconnell said it is not going to happen until there is a republican president. >> we have already passed legislation that already defunds title 10 fund. >> you blame the senate on this? >> i don't blame anybody. i blame the president of the united states. we have a republican president,

you would have -- we don't appropriate the planned parenthood. we appropriate the department of health and human services. it then awards grants. frankly you have to have a president who will give you a department secretary that will actually follow those principles. >> this will be something to be continued. it could be a crazy six weeks. thank you for coming on and being civil. >> let me bring in the panel, david brooshgs of the david brooks of "the new york times," sara fagan, former bush political director, davmaria hinojosa. >> chris christie's answer to you was not an attack on you. it was like a mutiny not a campaign. there is an illusion in this country and the republican base that you can win by screaming.

donald trump can just scream and somehow govern the country. but in a democracy you need a coalition. we have a very tough legislative system and you have to actually have craftsmen and there is insufficient respect for the right right now by carson supporters. >> sara fagan, was it overpromising? look, i heard it all through 2014, give us a republican senate, we're going to do all these things. >> right. >> the fact of the matter is the president didn't have to veto anything on getting rid of obama care. hasn't had to veto a defunding of planned parenthood. he hasn't had to do these things. the arguments are right on that, aren't they? >> i think they are right on that. and the reality is, governing is really hard if you don't have 60 senators. and you don't have, you know, control of the whole apparatus. and republicans don't. and so -- >> some people think that was the whole point of creating the senate and the house was to make it house. >> it was the point. the founders were wise. but there is frustration nothing

is getting done. on this matter of planned parenthood and funding. sometimes our leadership sounds defeatist. i don't know why you would assume in a giant game of chicken that the republicans always have to lose. this becomes a pr battle. i'm not sure that putting planned parenthood videos on a loop on the news isn't going to end well for republicans. it's going to be bad for democrats and really bad for hillary clinton. >> watching all this, i get the idea that oh, the right feels as if obama will do whatever it takes to win and they do whatever it takes to win. that feels like we're devolving. >> to your point, tom hanks in a machining had a great line in "league of their own" said being hard is what makes it good. politics is supposed to be hard. the story of the cycle, the story of our times is a dysfunction in our social institutions, especially government and politics, and the public's loss of faith in those

institutions. and the public right now is very angry, anxious, and asking what side of the barricade are you on? right now, whether right or wrong, donald trump, bernie sanders, carson appear to be on the other side of that barricade. i spent almost the whole summer in michigan, and i ran into people i would called crazy, buts -- crazy but, donald trump is crazy, but, he is taking on the media, he's punishing the establishment. that donald trump is crazy but he's saying what i can't say, isn't he. the country is angry and until somebody brings positive change or very negative change, it is going to keep going. >> this is rhetoric out there, it's not just on the right. >> it's not. but when you think about what governor christie said last week, which i was hearing, because i live in new york and i live in harlem which is very safe, you know when governor christie said i want to bring back stop and frisk. if i was mayor of new york i would bring it back in the first five minutes. people are saying, hold on.

what are you talking about? there is a lot of questioning about i'm going to do this, and i'm going to do it now. so we know there was question. you're talking about demographics, that doesn't necessarily play well with a certain demographic. way back when, governor christie liked to be the bully. you know? well, people have not forgotten that. i think bridgegate is going to be there, even though he says nothing has been proven, people are not letting go of that. if he talks the way he really is, people are going to think he is a bully. >> you said isn't bridgegate a stain on your administration? he said nothing has been proven. >> that's where you get your credibility issues. >> in fairness to governor christie, when you look at how feisty he is and you think globally about this race and you think that people are flocking to donald trump -- >> and not him. >> ultimately, i believe a

governor, a jeb bush or chris christie or someone is going to emerge, he has a lot of donald trump in him in terms of his style. and you could see someone like governor christie in a smu tumultuous race. >> they might think he is a bully. coming up, hillary clinton has a lot of hurdles to clear before becoming the next president. perhaps the tallest hurdle is this man now. senator bernie sanders. he joins me next. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by morgan stanley, where capital creates change. that detergent was like half the price! and we'll have to use like double! maybe more! i'm going back to the store? yes you are.

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♪"please forgive me, i know not what i do..."♪ introducing app-connect. the things you love on your phone, available on 11 volkswagen models. welcome back. hillary clinton finally got some good news on the e-mail front this week. on friday the justice department said she did have the authority to delete e-mails from her personal account that she did not believe were government records. still, as i've been saying for a while, if it weren't for donald trump, bernie sanders would be the biggest political story of the year. consider this, last sunday our nbc/marist poll had sanders up by double digits in new hampshire. and a quinnipiac poll where he has a one-point lead in iowa. both of the most recent polls in iowa and new hampshire have bernie sanders ahead. he joins me now. senator, good morning. >> good morning. >> you have based much of your campaign on economic issues,

economic\s. and recently you apologized for the lack of foreign policy substance on your own website. i noted there is nothing on syria, nothing on isis, iraq and on terrorism. you do have something on the iran deal so you want to focus a little bit on that this morning. let's start with the refugee crisis. how many refugees do you think the united states should take in? the united nations wants up to 65,000 syrians placed here in the united states. is that a proper number? >> i think it's impossible to give a proper number until we understand the dimensions of the problem. what i believe is that europe the united states, and saudi arabia, the united arab emirates must address this humanitarian crisis. people are leaving iraq and syria with just the clothes on their backs. the world has got to respond. the united states should be part of that response. >> when it comes to syria, how much of the problem of the micro crisis is the united states at fault in the policy, whether

bush in iraq or obama in syria? >> look, i voted against the war in iraq. if you want to go you tube, find what i said when i voted agains what i said when i voted against that war. and sadly, i'm not happy about this, chuck, but you will find is much of what i feared would happen in fact did happen. massive destabilization in that region. so i think really the issue now is not who is at fault, the issue is now what we do. what we do is bring the region together. countries like saudi arabia, which has the third largest military budget in the world, turkey, other countries, are going to have to get their hands dirty, going to have to get on the ground in taking on isis. i believe strongly the united states, the u.k., france, other countries should be supportive. but i disagree that the united states should have combat troops in that area.

i fear very much that we will be in perpetual warfare in that region. i do not want to see that occur. >> you have said you are not opposed to military action under certain circumstances. in fact, the one time you voted for military intervention was in kosovo, which was a humanitarian crisis. are we at the point in syria is such a humanitarian crisis that actually is does justify some military action to stabilize that country? >> no. i voted also for the war in afghanistan. >> yes, sir, i apologize. yes, you did. >> because i believed that osama bin laden needed to be captured, needed to be brought to trial. let me be clear, i am very concerned about a lot of the war talk that i am hearing from my republican colleagues who apparently have forgotten the cost of war and the errors made in afghanistan and iraq. and what i believe, chuck, very much is that the most powerful

military on earth, the united states of america, that our government should do everything that we can to resolve international conflict in a way that does not require war. sometimes using military force is necessary. but i think it should be the last resort, not the first resort. so i would suggest that we do everything that we can to try to resolve these conflicts -- which are not easy. we are living in a very crazy, difficult world without american troops getting into combat. >> as you take a lead in the polls people are now saying okay, can bernie sanders be the nominee? can he be the most electable candidate? i know your campaign is rg aing in some ways you might be more likable than hillary clinton. let me ask you, why are you more likable than hillary clinton? >> i think the issues, chuck, that we are talking about, the collapse of the american middle class, massive income and wealth inequality. why we are the only country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care or family or medical

leave, why millions of families are finding it so hard to send their kids to college or have decent child care. these are the issues that are resonating with the american people. and the american people in my strong view are sick and tired of establishment politics, of establishment economics. and they want a candidate who is prepared to stand up to the big money interests, wall street, corporate america, that exert so much power over our legislation and our legislative life in washington. i think we are generating a lot of excitement not just in iowa and new hampshire, but all across this country. that means larger voter turnouts. let me tell you this, in my strong view, the republicans did not win last november, the democrats lost because a lot of their supporters because a lot of their supporters are demoralized not coming out to vote. working people, younger people. i think we can strike an

excitement in those groups of people, increase voter turn out, not only win the white house, but regain control other the senate and do well in the house. >> you have launched 58 bills this year, 35 of them don't have a single cosponsor. my question is this, if you are president, if you can't convince colleagues in the senate now to support some of your legislation how are you going to work with congress as president? >> well, i think if you check my record you will find that in the last session of congress, as chairman of the u.s. senate veterans committee i worked extremely well with republican leadership in the house, jeff miller, john mccain and others, and passed in terms of the veterans bill one of the more comprehensive pieces of legislation in that session. we have more amendments passed bipartisan than any other member of the congress. when we talk about the most difficult issue, how we make colleges and universities tuition-free, how we expand social security, republicans are

not supportive of that. the only way that real change takes place, and what we are doing in this campaign is bringing millions of people together to stand up and say enough is enough, our government has got to represent all of our people, not just wealthy campaign donors. >> senator sanders, i have to leave it there. senator, stay safe on the trail. we'll see you soon. when we come back, a firsthand look at the refugee crisis in europe, and this question -- how much is the u.s. to blame for the masses of homeless people that are pouring into europe. hey babe, last one home cooks? ♪ ♪ ♪ another tie. order in? next time i drive. the right-sized nissan rogue. ♪

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welcome back. as more and more middle eastern refugees pour into europe the crises they are fleeing seem only to get worse. isis on the march in iraq, and libya and of course syria. this weekend russia is engaging in what u.s. defense department officials are calling a military build-up there, similar to what the russians did in crimea last year. their support of bashar al assad will likely just prolong the already brutal civil war there and create even more refugees. i asked nbc's richard engel to give us a firsthand look at the crisis and u.s. policies that have helped fuel it. >> reporter: the refugees are pouring into europe. and each one has a reason. this woman is taking her grandson to sweden because his father was kidnapped by isis in syria.

"every day killing, looting, houses destroyed," she said. this man is escaping the syrian regime. "syria's only future is destruction, and that's no future at all. i was a stone mason. now there's no work, only death," he said. searching for a smuggler to take them from hungary to germany, this group fled from baghdad. "the u.s. turned us over to iran been request the he said. another group also searching for a smuggler but which ended up getting busted by hungarian police is escape being the taliban in afghanistan. all running from wars and crises that the u.s. waded into over the past decade. president bush went big in iraq. he shocked, awed, and occupied, unleashing a civil and religious war, which washington and the middle east weren't prepared for.

war-weary president obama went small, critics would say too small, supporting rebels in libya but ignoring syria, even while accusing president assad of gassing more than 1,000 to death, including children. the administration drew red lines but they were crossed time and again. the u.s. isn't responsible for the sunni/shia bloodletting, the madness of isis, or the merciless bombings of the assad regime, all of which are driving these people to find new lives in europe. but by unraveling the old system, the u.s. helped unleash those forces. this exodus is a direct result of the violent convulsions in the middle east. the syrians, afghans and iraqis streaming into europe have lost all hope in the future of their on the other hand countries. they are here to seek new hope for their children. for "meet the press" i'm richard engle, hungary. joining me now, robert ford,

he served as u.s. ambassador to syria from 2012 to 2014. ambassador ford, welcome to "meet the press." >> nice to be with you. >> let me ask you this basic question. is it the syria policy of this administration, is it a failure? >> well, i think the administration's policy hasn't helped achieve a solution to the syrian conflict. but let's be clear. i disagree with richard engel, it is not the u stites that caused the unraveling of the old order in the middle east or the unraveling of syria. it's the brutality of regimes like the regime in syria, and the demand by people on the ground in those countries to have their dignity respected by their governments. that's the root cause of the problem. >> well we understand the root cause, but it seems as if every response the united states has tried, whether it's been aggressive in the bush administration or much more -- much smaller in the obama

administration, is it nothing seems to work? do we throw up our hands and say forget it, let them sort it out and walk away? >> well, i don't think we can throw up our hands and walk away. we've got united states pilots, u.s. air force pilots doing combat missions now in places like syria and iraq. so we're in it. the question is what do you do going forward? i have two points on that. number one, let's remember, we just saw a spot on the refugees. the basic problem with the refugees is coming not from the islamic state, it is coming from president assad's brutality, dropping gas, dropping barreled explosives on civilian areas and has depopulated entire syrian cities. half of syrian is now deplaced. half of syrian population is no longer living in their home. so you have to deal with the assad problem. the administration's focus in syria, however, is not on the assad brutality. it is on the islamic state. >> let me pause you there.

>> while that is also a big problem it is not going to fix the refugee problem. >> do you think our focus is wrong? our focus should be on regime change with assad first, then focus on isis? >> i absolutely do, because the assad regime's brutality is driving recruitment into the islamic state. we just had a report out of the u.s. intelligence community reported by associated press two months ago that said that the islamic state is replacing all of the fighters that we kill in our bombing runs. why is that? because they are able to recruit from angry young syrian men who are furious at the bombing that the assad regime is inflicting on civilian neighborhoods in syrian cities. >> how should president obama respond to russia essentially doing a military build-up on behalf of assad? >> first, what the russians are doing is not particularly new. they have been giving military aid to the syrian government

throughout this conflict. i talked about the planes dropping bombs on neighborhoods in syrian cities. those are russian airplanes. they use russian russian spare parts. what's new and different now is that the russians are increasing the aid. they're increasing it in terms of the scale and speed at which they are sending it. and that is because the assad regime is losing the civil war. and i think the president and did the administration needs to do two things going forward. number one, they need to tell the russians we want a political negotiation, but a serious political negotiation, not a sham negotiation, and not a negotiation for cosmetic changes to the brutal assad government. and second, in order to get assad to negotiate seriously, and he has refused to negotiate seriously, you have got to keep the military pressure on him. that's what the local opposition fighters in syria, not islamic state, but the others who accept a political negotiation, they need help. this is a war. they need military assistance.

turkey is giving some. saudi arabia is giving some. but there needs to be more help to put pressure on assad to get him to the table. >> you yourself argued if the united states trained some of these folks somehow not with isis but not with assad, they're createeding more tribal problems, and they're going to keep fighting with each other and that adds to the problem. that's an argument that you made recently. >> no, i don't think i ever argued that. what i have said there are lots of people in the syrian armed operation, many groups that accept a political negotiation. those groups need help. not the islamic state obviously, those are bauer berriens. but there are lots of people in syria who are fighting both the islamic state on one side and fighting the assad regime and its brutality on the other side. they are between a rock and a hard place. and those are the people who ultimately are going to have to come to a negotiation with assad and come up with a new national unity government. and we can't get there until

assad and his friends feel enough pressure that they will negotiate seriously. that's what we did in the balkans. that's how we got the serbs to the negotiating table. they felt enough military pressure that finally they went to dayton, and under american leadership came up with a deal. >> all right ambassador ford, i have to leave it there. i appreciate you coming on "meet the press." if we can solve the syria problem, maybe we can solve this microproblem as well. my colleague, nbc news anchor lester holt is traveling to hungary and will report there tomorrow night to report firsthand on this refugee problem. back in a moment with our "end game" segment. what is joe biden thinking next? >> announcer: stay tuned for "end game," brought to you by boeing. here. it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪

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apple scones smell about done. ahh, you're good. i like to bake. add new business services with at&t and get up to $500 in total savings. time now for "meet the press end game," brought to by boeing. where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. "end game" time. let's look at vice president joe biden's appearance on the late show with stephen colbert. he spoke for the first time publicly on the death of his son beau. >> a guy shouted out from the back, bronze star, sir, served with him in iraq. and all of a sudden, i lost it. how could you -- i mean, that's not -- i shouldn't be saying this. but that -- that -- >> you know, we -- >> you can't do that.

>> brooks, that didn't sound like a guy that's ready to run for president, did it? >> i don't know. i thought it was one of the most beautiful moments in american politics. we have so much disgust and fear. there we loss that was love. something bigger than politics. that is more likely to make him. something bigger than politics. that is more likely to make him want to regard this -- >> you mean he didn't focus on that. >> that was spontaneous. i think that was a connection to the american people. i thought there was no chance he could win this year because it is such an anti-establishment year. but that's a connection. and that is something he might be able too bring to this race. i began to think it's plausible he could run. >> there is certainly an opening. >> do the democrats need him? >> i think it's good for democracy. >> does the party need him? >> yes. i think the party needs him. >> party needs him. >> i have to say, in my family,

you know, there is not a lot of politics, but one of my family members sent this out and said you must watch this. within my family there was so much conversation. first time that an e-mail sent like "you have to watch this." i watched it and i actually found it beautiful but it wasn't to me the emotion of it. i was just like, wow, it is really nice to just hear someone talking and just talking without the sound bite. fact that they didn't cut him off i think is something that is really working. i've thought. so what would happen if hillary clinton was there and he started asking her about being a grandmother and let's just say she kind of teared up, what the reaction would have been? i have no idea. but there is a notion of just let us talk, let us be. clearly for biden, he can do that. >> does biden help hillary clinton? >> no. no. if he got in, he would cut towards her base and exaggerate her perceived lack of

authenticity. i take him at his word. when he says he is not ready to run because his heart isn't in it i take him at his word. but the one thing that might get him in is a calling from beau. his son did say, run. as a father, as a guy who finished a parenting book, a book about parental expectations i can tell you nothing messes more with a man's head than their bond with their son. does it then become harder to attack joe biden? republicans used to use him as a punching bag a year ago. ted cruz tried that this year and he was shut done. does that make him a more powerful candidate? >> i think for a period of time it does. for a time. the facts around vice president biden as a candidate, you know, remain the same, which he has been gas prone most of his career. and we shouldn't expect just because he's gone through this incredibly emotional personal experience which he deserves credit for how he's handling it, he is not likely to change as a candidate overall five months from now. >> david, i'm curious, where are you on hillary clinton as a candidate right now?

>> she is leaking air. she is an establishment candidate in an anti-establishment year. they are not creative. >> who is right now? >> trump is pretty creative. you have got to give him credit for that. >> for better or worse. >> and she is in a party that has moved away from her. british and american politics rhymes. >> this is ringing a lot of alarm bells. >> the democrat base has moved far to the left. >> the same way the republicans have moved far to the right. >> bill clinton was able to position himself as an agent of change. >> hillary clinton doesn't seem to be able to change. she is positioning herself as a agent of the stat cuss quo. >> and she is mired in five investigations. these are not going away any time soon. >> she needs to have more fun, she needs to have more joy. she needs to be dancing more

like she did on "ellen." >> you set me up with fun because this is the most fun thing i've seen all week. look at what azteca, the mexican tv network is doing to promote the mexico/u.s.a. soccer match in october. watch it. >> we don't have victories anymore. the american dream is dead. is dead. >> wow, i can't wait. i hope trump goes to the mexico/u.s. match. what do you think? >> i've said it before, things backfire. it is a very mexican saying. that ad just shows trump -- speaking spanish ] . >> muerto. speaking of muerto. our show is. that's it for today. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

enjoy the nfl today. sunday, it' press." enjoy the nfl today. >> do they see him? >> racing against the clock -- >> he's right there. >> -- to save lives. >> get out! >> this went from being a curiosity to a catastrophe. >> hurry! >> literally, in a matter of minutes. >> diving head first into danger, courageous people risk everything -- >> he can't get out. >> oh, jesus. >> -- to stop a tragedy. >> i don't think i was breathing. i stopped breathing for those few seconds. >> that's when i said, oh, the hell with it. >> heart-stopping rescues. breath-taking power. >> when i saw it, i felt like i should save him. >> and amazing acts of heroism. >> this is what you see in the movies.